Interview–Alan Cathcart

Celebrated journalist and racer 'Sir' Alan Cathcart brings the many worlds of motorcycling together through his writing and his riding. In this episode, we talk about the power of translation, "your thrill & your enjoyment", a shocking sensory experience from the Isle of Mann, and what it means to make your hobby into your livelihood. Alan also tells us why the short answer is electric, but the long one is in hydrogen.

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Transcript:

Alan Cathcart Forever

[00:00:00] Nearly everyone in the motorcycling world seems to know Sir Allen Kakar, the Night on Two Wheels, A man who has won many a motorcycle race often while riding his original seven 50 SSS Ducati, but he has also been writing about motorcycles for as long as anyone. A man who has helped build connections between countries and companies and racers and engineers.

A process of translation. He attributes to his being able to speak so many languages and having explored the world of motorcycling while using them. He learned those languages. I think there's at least five, maybe even seven, that he's fluent in. He learned them because his dad didn't speak any other languages.

His dad loved to travel and talk to people, but was always frustrated by his inability to understand any other language except [00:01:00] English. So he made sure that Alan started learning languages as soon as possible, which means he had already started studying Italian and Spanish and French as a child, and he just never stopped.

Also when he was a child, his dad and his dad's best friend, their neighbor, Neville Green, introduced him to his love of cars. It happened because Alan was sick. He was about six years old and he was in bed with what was back then a dangerous bout of the measles. And uh, the savior for him was Neville's subscription to Auto Car Magazine, which came.

Uh, every week and his dad would bring them over to him and he would read them. He was already a pretty good reader then. And then later, once he was feeling better, his dad started taking him, uh, to over to Silverstone, British Grand Prix racetrack. They would pile into their Ford pilot. Um, and go right up to the circuit.

Really early in the morning, there was just like a thin rope that separated the circuit from the [00:02:00] spectators back then. And his pilot, um, the, the boot, as he calls it, would turn into a table. The trunk would turn into a table and they start grilling bacon and eggs and watching the cars. Much later when Alan was studying law in London, his roommate and his best friend, a man named Jeff, an American who got him hooked on motorcycles.

He was already hooked on cars, but then he got hooked on motorcycles in a similarly sensory way because his friend had ordered. A set of leathers, a leather, motorcycling, uh, outfit for racing. And, um, they shared this flat in London and Jeff was gone and the leathers came and Alan took care of him and hung him in his room for him.

And he said that he just couldn't, uh, walk past that room because he kept smelling the leathers and there was like drawing him in. So by the time Jeff got back, Alan had his own set of leathers and they went and found a motorcycle for him, uh, which was a dati. And pretty soon after he entered some [00:03:00] races and found out actually he was very naturally skilled.

I think it was like his fourth race that he came in fourth place and it was also in the rain on his Ducati. So yeah, he was hooked after that and pretty soon got a seven 50 sss. Um, I think this, he still has it or he has one that he got around that time. They go for over half a million now at auction, but Alan is still racing this.

In the middle of all this. He also started riding about, uh, motorcycles, which was just sort of an accident. I. As he tells, it just came into his life and ended up, of course, now becoming the most famous motorcycle journalist that there has been. He also started the world's largest racing club, uh, in England.

And so he was working as a lawyer and a businessman, but he gave that all up. To work in the motorcycle world and he started writing for some of the top [00:04:00] magazines in so many different countries. He tells a lot of these stories also while he was talking to me at a signed helmet of Valentino Ross in the background.

So that tells you who his friends are, and he actually is a good friend of his. I think Alan's written more about motorcycles than anyone in the world. He tells us how it happens in this interview and we talk a lot about electric motoring and what's changing and why the sensory sensation of riding is actually heightened on an electric bike, he says, which I was kind of surprised to hear him say that.

He also talks about how he thinks the long-term answer is in hydrogen. We also talk about what it's like to ride and to crash in that most dangerous of all races. The Isle of Man at, uh, tt, which Alan has raced in, of course. We also discuss how grateful he is that he's been able to make his hobby into his livelihood, and what a wonderful experience it has been for him to live that dream in a way.

We talk about how much he owes to his wife Stella. [00:05:00] They're really a team, and we learn how he found out he's a celebrity to the guards at Folsom Prison. So this one's packed full. We had some audio trouble, but I've done my best. Alright, enjoy everyone.

Hi Alan. It's great to see you. Welcome to Forever Motoring. Thank you for joining us today. Nice to be here. Thank you. So I always start with a similar question, which is more or less, tell me about an early moment in your life that you remember being moved or some early memory of motoring. As Motor. Motor was when my father took me to Silverstone in 1950s to watch the British Grand Prix, and I remember being, uh, being seduced by the different of Ferrari.[00:06:00]

Also those days by the, the fantastic energy that put EZ was my hero. Argentinian Manuel fan champion. His great rival both Argentina gon was.

Wind, the steering wheel back and four wheel drift. Very exciting. Very so he was early, but, uh, same. I used tot motorcycle races on p b radio with uh, walker.

That was my [00:07:00] first real, uh, first real awareness of racing motorcycles, but, oh, that sounds, that really takes, takes us back. How old were you roundabout, do you think, when you Oh, I was, uh, 10 years. Yeah. Wow. So that's early and you were already hearing the different sounds of the motors then and, yeah.

So, uh, he, he put, he set me off on the right direction. Yeah, I guess he was very interested in it too. Yes. Um, in fact it came, I think he was doing it to, uh, support me because I had me when I was when.

Ne Green, remember his name? Neville was a car and [00:08:00] magazine every week and, um, they some, some of auto and, and well at that age, and I discovered a.

One, those,

uh,

Up the position on the inside and then down the up. [00:09:00] And.

That's just wonderful. It's, it's amazing you remember it with such detail. I guess it was a really new experience for you, but also very sensory. It sounds like it was a seminal moment. Yeah, it sounds like it. So how do we get from that little boy who's discovered something new to uh, Today where if anyone is asked, you're basically the premier, moto, motorcycling journalist.

I'm one of those incredibly fortunate people who made his hobby, his livelihood, and my.

I vintages, uh, ones I ended career racing super[00:10:00]

and um,

for.

And

uh, to.

Yeah, we lost your audio there, but you were talking about Jeff Quay, your friend, who was a bike racer, bike racer as well as a car driver, and he raced flat track in America. They had a great awareness of, uh, [00:11:00] motorcycles, uh, down the ages. Much better than probably.

We the flat together in London. And, uh, he ordered a set of to, uh, to race him, which while his, uh, while in Pennsylvania with his, I hung him up in his bedroom and every time I.

Well, let's, the time he came back, I had

Haron Sprint.[00:12:00]

And that's how we went racing. I lost your audio just for a second there, but I think it was, it was still Okay. So your, your dad had sort of given you this gift of motoring, but I wonder how your family felt about you becoming Well, my father was a racer Yourself? Yeah. My father was fairly clan about it.

Uh, he supported me, whatever I wanna do. My mom of course, absolutely didn't like it at all. But you still graduated from university? I graduated from university with a law degree and I had intended to go an international law to speak, um, several languages. My father was a very gregarious person, loved talking to people and

speak.[00:13:00]

So I.

And that was how it began. So you said your first bike was a Ducati, and that's the one you started first winning races on. What was it about that Ducati, do you think that, I know you've since had a particular relationship with it, but can you remember what it felt like on that bike? Yeah, because I, I raced it, uh, just four.

Okay. Wow. The same bike.

I foolish, uh, to sell my, actually I had two 70 at the same time, uh, back in 76 and 77 because were two different championships and had a much more restrictive, uh, specification than the other. And, uh, rather than sadly, somebody I.[00:14:00]

That a stock seven was, uh, spec, so hit racing.

Um, um, but I 19.

Okay.

So I able to get another one from Italy. That's the one I still have today. I'm, I think it's, [00:15:00] I'm,

I'm nuts to do.

Whereas mine's taken 49 years to get weight than it's today. That's a special bike. It's almost part of your body. Probably by this point, probably feels like almost an extension of you. Well, anybody ridi especially so ocean, well,

I was fortunate to become good friends with was the man who designed it. Uh, to me, that motorcycle swims against the norm almost every possible way you could imagine. Oh, I [00:16:00] guess you were already working on your writing skills at the same time as your riding skills back in those days, but then you started racing and you started doing well, and what was the, when did things sort of shift?

Travel company. So I had presentations, uh, to clients and one of our most profitable, um, most intense, uh, branches, tourism were.

And Chevrolet would make sure that they rolled out the red carpet for you with stuff that you couldn't buy if you came over. So, uh, this is a form of show, very enjoyable to do. And that's how I met my wife, Stella, who uh, was working in the same company and, um, [00:17:00] got married in.

Uh, I'd also been gun assembling a things,

uh, the classic British, Italian, um, races of the classic.

A magazine called Classic in Britain, um, in 1978. And, um, one of the, the, the, uh, sources of

travel there about four months, a business.[00:18:00]

Always motorcycle.

And that's

X Ex

World in, uh, in 1957. I found it in Moss, Oklahoma. Oh. Found an PSA North Triple in Texas. I found the, one of the three

races in Cincinnati. I.

So in 1978, classic [00:19:00] Magazine and first about where all,

so I wrote,

Speech, just

idea.[00:20:00]

I was racing

and so. Agreed test.

So that got us going. 1980. I went Australia to hold for, and while I was in Sydney, I was there.

Press and saw

table two.[00:21:00]

Mike, who is the owner and editor of Australia News, still is Australia's number one and certainly the oldest in Australia. Uh, sorry we lost your audio. Just a minute there. But, so you're talking about, uh, Mike Hanlon of A A M C N in Australia, and you met him at this, uh, race by chance in Australia, and he was saying he wanted you to come work for him.

He was saying, I need you. Yeah, we don't have a European correspondence. I want somebody about the Australia in the, you should think about it. Anyway, long story short,

sooner.[00:22:00]

In the hills and as a, as we were driving along in rental car, uh, I saw this coming.

That's one.

Around,

so.

It's w they always do things. Let's look in the red Michelin and see if there's a nice restaurant around. Yeah, they always have a nice [00:23:00] restaurant nearby and

so off.

That's, hello name from Australia. This is wonderful. We have here from Australia. We'll get coverage, please. Yeah. Uh, take a key. Um, yes, but I don't have any, any riding equipment helmet, which size? Okay.

I better go then is anybody to tell me where to go.

So my and then article [00:24:00] published it and sent copy of a magazine, a.

Months later for various reasons. I business and

I up.

Magazines couldn't cover themselves and other freelance journalists couldn't cover themselves. So, uh, important to speak Italian. And the, the, the, there was a predo of Italian brands and teams built their, owns their own engines.[00:25:00]

List of 16

article, uh, published. Sent them a copy of the magazine.

Essentially

the.

And also.[00:26:00]

You were sort of the first to do to do this as you talk. There's so many things that come to mind. I wanna know about Stella and how you met and how she supported you and 'cause that's a very big thing for her to sort of give you the support to go into this other. Of life. But also it's very interesting because things seem to just have happened in a way.

There's this kind of flow to your life that you said a lot of it was by accident. Sure. I wasn't looking for these opportunities. I'm fortunate, Lord, me opportunities and be able to be sensible.[00:27:00]

Had to move

in those days,

so very time to. On my own. Instead I did it. It all worked out. I guess these opportunities that come, sometimes they come to people and they don't take them. Um, but you seem to have kind of gone with these opportunities that came and trusted it somehow. Yeah, and I say made them work too. Mm-hmm.

I've done something that, uh, I, I, I regret it. Um, but well, again, I started the classic racing motorcycle, but which [00:28:00] is today still the world's largest fuel road racing, road racing.

78 with the, um, the help of Dick and getting one of my friends, just the three of us who kicked it off and, um,

while expecting number one, sun, busy doing all the.

Was, we had no idea it would work. Um, and announced that we were gonna start this club Motorcycles, um, built between 1946 and 1972. And, uh, we hoped that we were giving a party some people.[00:29:00]

I.

What do you think it was that everyone connected with in that at that moment that obviously you touched something that a lot of people wanted in their life. What do you think it was? It was a common love, passion for motorcycles. So bikes are great.[00:30:00]

But

bikes and we, we allowed.

74 also raced. In fact, I

played.

I wasn't racing because I, I took three years off racing to get, and uh, this very studio [00:31:00] young gentleman came up to me, said, excuse me?

I said, yes, I'm.

Would you be interested in, in allowing John even,

well, actually

British British motorcycle of the early seventies anyway, so of course I said yes. We ended up becoming firm friends. To this day, we're still friends. In fact, when we down downsized houses about eight years ago after our final child into the, uh,[00:32:00]

We downsized to a smaller house from where before. So I figure I put

lot of space. I.

And that's what my archive is. How delightful. Have you thought about giving your archive archive to the barber or someplace like that or to No. The library or somebody raised that with me recently. Okay. I hadn't spoken to.

I.

It's definitely precious stuff. I'm sure [00:33:00] there's a lot more to come, but it's just precious as somebody who does a lot of research, that's a treasure trove. So, um, yeah. The worst thing though is that you, we really gotta exercise self-control because Yeah, so many pads open up, it's hard. It's get, can be overwhelming, but exciting.

But as you were talking, I, I had a couple things come to mind. First is, I wonder about what the international scene was like before you started riding and racing and writing, because you, you've really, it seems to me, but it could just be my position from where I come in time, but that you actually sort of helped.

Create this more international community and sharing between different countries and brands and or was that already there in the racing scene? Well, I wouldn't in racing to a certain extent, compartmentalized, but example, one reason why I able toge.[00:34:00]

And hardly any, um, motorcycle journalists outside. It spoke Italian. So it was, it was compartmentalized to that extent. There were groups of nations and Spain and Portugal, for example, um, and Latin America, which kind of existed within their own subculture.

To extent true that, that I did bring, um, readers, uh, in, in, in anglophone countries, brought them awareness of what was going on in. One of things very for was I forged a relationship with magazine in Madrid, and this was Spain's largest [00:35:00] motorcycle. You actually were very much literally translating. I mean, you were with the language.

But you were actually really making some very important connections, sharing information that couldn't be really shared or hadn't been shared before then. Yeah, it's really fascinating to think about all those new paths and also what's interesting to hear you talk and to look at your amazing career.

There's so much integration between your writing, but also the, the friendships that you've made and how they've lasted. There's all these long histories, not only the bikes themselves and how you've. Those stories and perpetuated those stories across the world, but also with your relationships, right?

It's, it's also kind of reflected in the relationships that you've made. I like people and I've always been, uh, while, while I, I'm friends with,[00:36:00]

Valenti Ross's helmets behind me. Did he give you that and say he autograph as well? Oh, the people that I really related to have to years have been the people that make the bikes because obviously admire people.

I, Peter Hickman

admire.

I.

So, um, the engineers, the, the some case team and the background people who don't, [00:37:00] one of the reasons why I was so fortunate to be allowed to test right, every single Japanese factory. I told the story of what the, of what the engineers, uh, were, had been attempting to over the past year. Sometimes unsuccessfully, sometimes successfully, but uh, the rough always went.

Condition,

evolution of race.

I, the engineers were happy Bike[00:38:00]

been going on,

I ever claimed to be able to.

Um, but I was certainly first

Lawson success five.

So he did win the World Championship again, but it was by steady Eddie, steady Eddie score points instead of trying to win all the races win. Mm-hmm. Long game. I [00:39:00] wonder if there's any bike you haven't been on that you've wanted to be on. And I also wonder if there's anyone else in the world who's, who's been on as many bikes as you?

What do you think?

I'm fortunate I've been,

but also I've always been vintage

and so that's case

books.

As far as bikes that I, I wish I could ride up because I've ridden now thanks to Miller Collection. I bike running. I have a great, um, [00:40:00] great.

I think that the, the bike I have ridden the motor. Good, thanks. He has one and that's, most people buy bike and I have ridden the six as well. So I think that mainly the main boxes have been ticked. Always be others.

Look, a small manufacturers single Ss, uh, contraption, let's say, uh, has a great backstory if you delve into it as much as large manufacturer or.[00:41:00]

That's one thing that's so great about your work too, is making these connections and this narrative and. Part of history, but also like what you were saying, that you have a lot of respect for the engineers and the people behind the scenes, and that all becomes part of it. So in a way, it's another way you've translated between sometimes even the, the people within one company.

That's kind of a thread in your life. But I, I have to wonder, After all this time and all these bikes and all these different experiences, have you seen, what do you think has really stayed the same or been consistent about motorcycling through all these years? And do you feel like anything is changing now?

Uh, we could talk about the electric a little bit, but I just wonder how you've seen that trajectory. Well, trajectory is simple.

History of motorcycling from the 1880s up until today [00:42:00] is a passion for riding on two wheels. There is nothing else like riding motorcycle in the world, not even a bicycle, because by definition of pedal, the of motorcycle.

It's a single track vehicle, so your body becomes an element in the way in which the motorcycle behaves. It's not the case in a car. So you're a, an component of the motorcycles trajectory. It also expose you because you're not.

Anybody who's ever raced in the Avan, DT will tell you that one of the, the most unlikely, but uh, force for [00:43:00] sensations you get is when you're climbing up gooseneck and go Patch of wild. And it's so strong.

Oh, I just love that detail. That is really strong. When were you there, the Avan? Well, I was, uh, I have an honorable, uh, except record in Thet,

but I also

thank.

Was a bad one. First. I did a six lap.[00:44:00]

Um, anyway, I've always been so fascinated by the aliman, so Yeah, it's, it's hard. I mean, was Stella there when you crashed? 'cause Oh yeah. I'm wondering how you, how you ex It's hard to explain that race to people who, it's even hard for me to understand why, why it's okay to do that sometimes Butt.

High speed around extremely dangerous racetrack. Extremely. But, uh, yeah, it's, it's very satisfying. Yeah. Satisfaction. You do a good [00:45:00] well in the race so much, and rightfully so. Yeah, there is something about being on a motorcycle that's hard to explain, isn't it? In that way, or you've done it in a lot of different ways, but when it really comes down to why we do that, like what motoring really means it well, that's fine.

Maybe it has to do with what you were saying, where you become one with something. Not just the motorcycle, also the motorcycle, but the experience itself. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah, well,

Electric motorcycle riding electric sports. This sensation heightened I, I claim

every single.[00:46:00]

I every single iteration, which is the,

in the world, et cetera, et. So I, I get electric, but people electric because, oh, noise.

Win that screamed because Cut.

And that meant the go

Thrill. Oh. But even there wasn't so,

Walking along in, in the air, [00:47:00] and you were much more aware of the dynamic, the movement, the swing of the, because there was engine.

Turbocharging Engines, cars as well. Power, power, rubb world,

it's irrelevant. So what.

Because that's, that's acceleration. That's What was the first electric bike that you rode? Was it zero or, [00:48:00] um, no. Um, yeah, it was the prototype.

That gave me an idea of the, the thrill of performance for the first time. But then I, that was only prototype, but then I started writing zero, which were,

and uh, each year I would write a different iteration of the zero, and that way I could kind of monitor the increase in performance.

Year I remember,

which I thought was sufficient to be to go bike,[00:49:00]

sea,

to. Very large Inland Park. I'm not sure I lost the audio. Just a second. Yosemite. Oh, Yosemite, okay. Yeah, of course. Wow, you took an electric bike to Yosemite, so, yep. Oh gosh. What was that like? What year was this about? Okay. Still pretty. So what, you have to tell me what that was like? Was that That worked?

It happened. It worked.

That was, uh, Johnny Cash, uh, the jail. Um, Folsom. Folsom. Thank you, Folsom. So, I, Folsom, we, I wanted to go to Folsom Prison and we there my.[00:50:00]

Even the guards of Fol Prison know you can't believe Exactly. I said yes. How do you know? I tell me, is Max really as good as you said? Okay. Oh man, I love that. So, uh, we then had to climb an 8,000 foot. Get over to South. So we at a,

and there was charging point outside the. So we in, and usually when you plug in, you go and do something else like museum. We in [00:51:00] earlier day, Sacramento

and went back 74%.

So, uh, Because, so steep wouldn't, wouldn't pull. Um, the, so we had to put it on, on uh,

s front.

Over three. [00:52:00] Three.

So close.

When we gotta the hotel, I had something like 89% left. Anyway, that was, that was quite a thrill. Sounds exciting in a way that you figured it out. The thrill, we probably got away with it. Mm-hmm. Electric still have a way to go yet. Definitely. Especially in 2018. So you've seen it all kind of start and you've been part of riding these early bikes and do you see it as I c e versus?

Or l e or do you see it as these things will stay together? When you look at the future of motoring, do you think we're gonna have to change to electric or there's gonna be some other kind of evolution with the i c e? Electric is, is,[00:53:00]

it's the.

The short term answer is electric, but the long term answer unquestionably is hydrogen. And there are challenges in hydrogen, but there are many ways in which this hydrogen zero emission, uh, fuel. It. Electricity can have hydrogen beside sea somewhere, uh, far away from,

and you can charge it, wind solar panels, and you'll produce hydrogen.

So that you [00:54:00] can go top up hydrogen in the same way you do.

And these al deadlines established by British,

uh,

There are 8 billion internal combustion engine vehicles on the planet. Do do. Our leaders honestly think that we're gonna throw these away in the next 10 years. This is gonna be managed in a much more intelligent way than is presently and.

Human brain is intelligent enough to be able [00:55:00] to find solutions. I love the idea of flipping it a bit. Even the roads or the house getting charged from the bike or vice versa. Um, or the landscape and the transportation system itself being even more integrated with the vehicle. And, um, Just throwing away that number of CEEs is also not sustainable or good for the environment, so there's gotta be some other, other way.

E is definitely

is focusing very strongly on that.

That's the solution, but there will transition.

It's gonna happen, but it's gonna happen in a much more progressive, gradual way than presently being mandated by certain government. And um, the German government [00:56:00] was able to obtain a recognition of this from the eu and that's good for everybody. And in this transition, do you think that all these things we've talked about, That are so important to the motoring experience, which most of us know via an i c e, um, that those things will remain what they are in terms of what you said about what motivates us to motor two wheels and a motor, some kind or other electric or i c doesn't matter.

Yeah. There there is your thrill and then your enjoyment in two wheels, leisure, thrill, and your enjoyment. I think that's a good place to close, but. Just before we do, um, is there anything else you'd like to say about motorcycling or motoring in general? I'm very grateful to motorcycling for having taken me places around the world that I wouldn't have seen otherwise.

It's wonderful to think of your, the ride that you've had and that you're grateful [00:57:00] for it and that you've actually been able to do what you love and. In this integrated way where it's your work and your passion and it's still your passion after all this time, even working with it so closely. Yeah. That is one thing that people do ask me about quite frequently.

Doing this for so long, what? What gets you outta bed in the morning to keep on doing the same? Well, easy. It's not the same. No, it's changing all the time.

There's definitely more in the wheel and uh, I like riding about people

are an extension of personalities. Say one thing.[00:58:00]

Ability.

We had to do it all in English and we had, so thanks to my dad. Yeah, I was about to say, it goes back to your dad in a way, realizing that would've been a good asset for him that he didn't have. So you knew it early on. Because if, if we learn languages early on, it's also exciting and comes a little easier.

Well, Alan, I just wanna say thanks for the journeys that you've had and shared with all of us, and that you've created all these different connections between countries and bikes and people, and it means a lot.

Ride. Ride [00:59:00] safely, but keep on riding. Good Last words to end with. Thank you, Alan.